Mclaren P1 has unofficially done a 6:47 around Nurburgring

"HMMMA" (HMMMA) 10/21/2013 at 16:03 • Filed to: None

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That's 10 seconds faster than the 918.... pickup your jaw now.

Remember its still a rumor.

EDIT: there is also whispers of a 6:39, buts lets just stay conservative until official figures are released.

Manuél Ferrari > HMMMA 10/21/2013 at 16:05

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I hope it's true!

Manuél Ferrari > HMMMA 10/21/2013 at 16:06

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If this is true then it's going to be mighty tough for the LaFerrari to beat it.

DrivesaCorolla > HMMMA 10/21/2013 at 16:09

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Would not be remotely surprised.

Heck, wouldnt be surprised if it manages a faster one in the future.

Blunion05 drives a pink S2000 (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) > Manuél Ferrari 10/21/2013 at 16:11

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If it is true and seeing that the Ferrari is similar on paper in terms of power and other specs and what not, I think the time will be very alike. I don't think Ferrari will do an official lap though.

I'm rooting for McLaren though.

Gpivovarov > HMMMA 10/21/2013 at 16:11

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Where's this info coming from?

feather-throttle-not-hair > HMMMA 10/21/2013 at 16:11

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on such a long track I wonder how big of a difference environmental factors like humidity and track temperature make. This is part of my beef with N-ring times.

I like them as a measurement of "is this car fast, really fast or insanely fast" but i dont necessarily like it as an unofficial ranking of cars' speed. Ten seconds sounds like a lot, but on a 13 mile track, its the difference between two drivers of identical skill in identical cars, one who likes the setup and one who's style suits a different setup.

EL_ULY > HMMMA 10/21/2013 at 16:12

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and we are just sitting here enjoying these dudes battle it out :] Who wants more popcorn?

davedave1111 > HMMMA 10/21/2013 at 16:13

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I'm sort of surprised it's so 'slow'. Genuinely. With stuff like active aero and torque vectoring available without restrictions, cars like the P1 really ought to be going faster on a track like that than almost all current race cars. Then again, depends on the tyres as well.

KillerRaccoon - Group J's Sébastien Loeb > feather-throttle-not-hair 10/21/2013 at 16:14

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At the same time, Porsche basically lives at the ring.

Ghost Dog - For the kittens > HMMMA 10/21/2013 at 16:15

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"Rumored" to have "unofficially"...

For Sweden > HMMMA 10/21/2013 at 16:16

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Same time as a Zonda R

KillerRaccoon - Group J's Sébastien Loeb > feather-throttle-not-hair 10/21/2013 at 16:18

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At the same time, Porsche basically lives at the ring.

Manuél Ferrari > Blunion05 drives a pink S2000 (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) 10/21/2013 at 16:19

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True the power figures are similar. I just thought (from the brief reading I've done) that the P1's aero is more advanced. I know the Ferrari has active aero as well, but didn't think it was as advanced.

I need to find some real technical information about the aero on both cars (if that's even available?). I do admit Jalopnik comments have influenced my perception of which car will be faster. Most people seem to be rooting for the P1, and therefore saying it's the better car.

I do hope that both the P1 and LaFerrari are quicker than the 918. And it's not because I don't like Porsche, I love them and own one. It's because RWD.

Mikeado > HMMMA 10/21/2013 at 16:20

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So you're telling me that it can allegedly possibly maybe match a slick-tyred Zonda R?!

Manuél Ferrari > feather-throttle-not-hair 10/21/2013 at 16:21

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The German spectators probably release chipmunks onto the track when the Brits and Italians do their supercar testing. I'm sure 99% of Germany is rooting for the 918.

feather-throttle-not-hair > KillerRaccoon - Group J's Sébastien Loeb 10/21/2013 at 16:22

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Yeah, my intention is not to say "This isn't faster than the 918" becuase i suspect the P1 is faster (if nothing else than because i'm a mclaren fanboy) I'm just saying that none of these times should be considered definitive proof.

HMMMA > feather-throttle-not-hair 10/21/2013 at 16:26

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Well usually when manufacturers do these power laps, they wait for dry pleasant weather around the ring. Also to sound as unbiased as possible, the Porsche did seem to have some kind of speed limiter on the straight when it did its lap so maybe it could be faster, however according to the internet the Porsche was only capable of running one lap at full power (engine and electric motors) before it has to take time to charge its electric motors whereas the P1 uses KERS like boost which is constantly recharging on braking and DRS so its times can be varied depending on how the driver is deploying those systems and where.

Manuél Ferrari > davedave1111 10/21/2013 at 16:27

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I wonder what the theoretical best time would be for a production car. It's estimated that F1 cars could achieve lap times in the low 5 minute range. If that's true then a production sports car will probably never got close to the 6 minute mark.

HMMMA > Ghost Dog - For the kittens 10/21/2013 at 16:28

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I'll ninja edit, just for you.

Ghost Dog - For the kittens > HMMMA 10/21/2013 at 16:34

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Just an excuse to post Beaker is all.

NoahthePorscheGuy > Manuél Ferrari 10/21/2013 at 16:37

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fastest ever time was 6:11.13 in 1983 in a Porsche 956 with Stefan Bellof at the wheel. This was on a slightly longer track variant though.

HMMMA > Ghost Dog - For the kittens 10/21/2013 at 16:41

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It did make me laugh so your post is fully appreciated :)

Manuél Ferrari > NoahthePorscheGuy 10/21/2013 at 16:46

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I just looked up that car. What a cool prototype racer. It must have been a beast to drive.

If non street-legal version of the P1 on slicks could probably put down a pretty insane time.

123456 > feather-throttle-not-hair 10/21/2013 at 16:56

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Good point. All though the 918 might not be superior on paper, people have to remember that they basically live on the 'Ring. They have a huge operation there. They know all the tips and tricks there is to know.

Another thing to notice is that manufacturers claim times on different lengths of the track. I believe most of the Ferrari ring times are timed on a 200 meter longer distance than a lot of the others. Why I don't know, but that's what it says on the lap times.

Check out the wikipedia page on Nürburgring lap times, you'll see the varying distances.

And 10 seconds is quite a lot. With your "identical car, identical driver" reasoning, I'd say more like 5 seconds is a reasonable time frame.

davedave1111 > Manuél Ferrari 10/21/2013 at 17:00

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Well, it really depends on what counts as a production car, but even if you restrict it to street-legal cars, I think there are a lot fewer limitations on them than on an F1 car. Apart from active aero and stuff, they can also have more power - F1 cars 'only' have 700-800 bhp at the moment, which is less than a P1 or LaFerrari, let alone a Veyron.

Whether a car capable of such extreme cornering would sell is another matter. You're into the kind of g-forces that mean you'd have to bank the passenger cell through corners so as not to rip their heads off, and that kind of thing. Then again, Veyron drivers don't all go around at 250mph all the time, so I wouldn't bet on having unusable performance being a deal-killer - and having a car with g-suits might be quite cool.

The Red Bull X2010 fancar gives an idea of what is ultimately possible, although obviously it's not actually a real car. Still, it easily knocked 20+ seconds off Suzuka's ~90 second lap record in simulations, which suggests that it would take 80-odd seconds off the 6:11 lap record at the 'Ring. Not an exact comparison, of course, but call it a minute or two faster for a rough estimate.

feather-throttle-not-hair > HMMMA 10/21/2013 at 17:28

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Yeah, I guess what i'm trying to say is that at its very best, the Ring is going to represent an estimate.

Manuél Ferrari > davedave1111 10/21/2013 at 17:43

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That's true, F1 cars are restricted in many ways, including minimum weight. In the future we could see production cars with better power to weight ratios than F1 cars. A P1 successor made 10-15 years from now might have 2000+ HP.

The one thing that could keep F1 cars ahead is government regulations. Hypercars are getting so powerful that I wouldn't be surprised if the US and EU create HP limits at some point.

That would be pretty crazy if future production cars came with g-suits. Just imagine how many wrecks the owners will get into. They will reach their own skill limits way sooner than the car's limits are reached. I get humbled by my cars all the time and the one with the most power has 414HP. I just can't imagine trying to drive a hypercar around a track.

davedave1111 > Manuél Ferrari 10/21/2013 at 18:05

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I don't know about the crashes. You'd have to go ridiculously fast in something like the RBX2010 to have any trouble. We're talking about a car with so much cornering ability that you could be doing a couple of hundred mph in a straight line, yank the wheel hard over to full lock, and it would simply track round the corner without drama. Unless a driver goes barrelling into corners at 200+mph, all he'll have to do is follow the road.

I guess it's the ultimate in fast-car-slow being boring, but apart from the g-forces, cornering at 200mph in something ludicrously extreme would be as boring as taking the same corner at 30 mph in a normal car.

Manuél Ferrari > davedave1111 10/21/2013 at 18:18

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What I would be worried about is applying too much trottle at the wrong time. Even with all that aero the car will spin if the driver does something bone headed and applies throttle at the wrong time. There is just so much power on tap!

davedave1111 > Manuél Ferrari 10/21/2013 at 18:28

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Fan car, with a torque-transfer system allowing it to direct up to 100% to either wheels or fan. As soon as the wheels start to slip, dump the extra to the fan and they'll grip again. Probably want computer throttle control to make sure the fan's powered enough, but with 1000+ bhp all going to the fan, you could drive upside down let alone around any corner.

Manuél Ferrari > davedave1111 10/21/2013 at 18:51

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That's the coolest hypercar idea ever :)

davedave1111 > Manuél Ferrari 10/21/2013 at 18:57

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Well, it's basically how fan cars work anyway. When they were in F1, drivers found that they went faster round corners by staying on full throttle, sucked to the road, than lifting off.

Part-time suction actually raises some interesting possibilities I hadn't thought of, though - for regular cars, not hypercars. You could run with fairly high suspension for comfort, and really narrow tyres for economy, then when you get to a hard corner, suck all the air from under the car to increase downforce so it squats and grips.

GTRZILLAR32-Now saving for Godzilla and a condo > HMMMA 10/21/2013 at 18:58

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source of said rumor?

Manuél Ferrari > davedave1111 10/21/2013 at 19:00

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And if the fans have a reverse mode then you can hit a button to make your car jump if you see a cat crossing the road ahead of you!

davedave1111 > Manuél Ferrari 10/21/2013 at 19:02

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A jumping car would be cool, but you could have an emergency air-divert out the front to blow kitties and pedestrians out the way, and that would also be cool.

NoahthePorscheGuy > Manuél Ferrari 10/21/2013 at 20:40

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you think thats insane, the 962, its successor was even faster. And remember this is the 80's!

Manuél Ferrari > NoahthePorscheGuy 10/21/2013 at 21:00

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Imagine how scary those cars would be to drive. Big power, weigh nothing, and no computers to help keep you on the road. I would make a mistake and die for sure, lol

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > davedave1111 10/22/2013 at 08:38

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Formula one cars may have more design restrictions, but there is still the inherent difference that they are designed for the track in very limited production runs with very little budget restriction. 800hp in an F1 car is probably like 1600hp in a production car. Just because production cars are heavier, have more tire restrictions and are less aerodynamic. Hypercars may get to F1 levels, but maybe not, due to the laws of diminishing returns within the limitations placed on them due to them being production/street cars.

UncleWalty > HMMMA 10/22/2013 at 13:02

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Still nothing but rumor. The P1 is epic, for sure. But let's wait until this time is confirmed before everyone starts giving McLaren a rusty trombone.